[geeklog-devel] GL2 update

Blaine Lang geeklog at langfamily.ca
Wed Nov 10 09:58:14 EST 2004

Hi Tony and thanks for the detailed response.

I don't disagree that once I spend the time to get familiar with the tools 
and examples, I'm sure I will come to appreciate the improvements.
But I do spent my day in this environement so it will make sense and I will 
benefit from these changes.

I do believe this will mean there will be fewer plugin developers or casual 
GL users that can or will release a plugin or module for the new 
Something to consider and maybe with a better toolkit and documentation it 
won't be that bad. Those are just key items that take time as well.

Anyways for me - I think the direction is positive.

-- Blaine
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Bibbs" <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] GL2 update

My comments are below.  Before that, though, let me make it clear that
Phing would not be required by end users.  They would install the
software just like the do GL 1.3.x.  Propel would be required but we'd
include that in the distro ourselves.  Creole is required by Propel and
in this vein would effectively replace the use of PEAR::DB.

Blaine Lang wrote:

>Tony, Vince:
>I don't completely follow all the discussion and background and I know GL2
>is currently still in at the framework component stage, but I am wondering 
>few things:
>1: Does this mean as a plugin developer or GL developer I will need to have
>Propel and Creole installed ?
Both Propel and Creole would be required.  Both are easily installed
using "pear install".  The plugin developers don't have to use Propel of
they don't want to...in fact, for trivial plugins I don't think it would
make much sense.  Creole, however would be required.

>2: It would appear we would have dependencies on these projects and should
>we not be concerned regarding
>  - long term support
>  - will it meet our needs without changes in case our datatypes or model
>requires it.
Long term support is always an issue in the OSS world.  To make life
easier on us and to plan for any unexpected changes, I'm implementing a
DAO layer.  This effectively hides the implementation details of Propel
from the developer.  If we decide to get rid of Propel/Creole, all we'd
have to do is rewrite the DAO layer and 99% of the code would be left

>3: What are all the underlying layers or components that now need to be
>installed for GL 2
>Case 1: User
Again, for the user we would include all the libraries needed in the
distribution to make installation easier.  This would include
Propel/Creole and any PEAR libraries we decide to go with.

>Case 2: Developer (User requirements plus)
>Obvioius ones are:
> - PHP 5
> - MySQL or other DBMS
> - Webserver
Core GL2 developers and anybody wanting the benefits of the ORM (propel)
will need Phing and Propel installed. There is a bit of a learning curve
getting those setup but nothing too difficult and we can help that by
documenting this well.  Once it is setup and developers understand how
Propel works and how the DAO layer I'm building works the development
process goes really fast.   Obviously I can say this until I'm blue in
the face but until you use it the apprecation will be lost.

>PEAR Classes ?
Right now PEAR::HTML_Template_Flexy.  Oh, and don't forget our friend,

I think the jist of what you were getting at is this all seems
complicated and that the requirements are too great.  I will say it is a
big deviation from how 1.3.x is developed.  However, all bullshit aside,
coding will go much faster in this environment once the developer knows
how to use the ORM/DAO and, of course, MVC.


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