[geeklog-devtalk] geeklog-devel digest, Vol 1 #447 - 9 msgs

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Framework (Dirk Haun)
   2. Re: Framework (Tony Bibbs)
   3. Namespaces (Tony Bibbs)
   4. Re: GL2 Framework (Dirk Haun)
   5. Look-up Tables in GL2 (Tony Bibbs)
   6. Re: GL2 Framework (Tony Bibbs)
   7. Re: Framework (Blaine Lang)
   8. Re: GL2 Framework (Blaine Lang)
   9. Re: Framework (Tony Bibbs)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: "Dirk Haun" <dirk at haun-online.de>
To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Framework
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:18:01 +0100
Organization: Terra Software Systems
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net


>Anybody have better luck with the new tarball?


I got it to work eventually (with the new tarball and after installing
the Creole, Flexy, and Log packages). Well, sort of - can't add any new
hunts ("Cannot add or update a child row: a foreign key constraint
fails") but the rest seems to work.

Plain-text passwords in the database? Tsk, tsk, ... ;-)

I agree that it's really nice to see how much it does with that small
amount of code (your code, that is[1]) which is typical for good OO-based
designs. But this needs a *good* set of development docs to get people
started (myself included ...).

bye, Dirk

[1] You need a a huge amount of 3rd party code as compared to the code
that actually makes up the application. But that ratio would get better
when you're actually developing an application as big as Geeklog. This is
obvious, I guess - just wanted to point it out again :-)


-- 
http://www.haun-online.de/
http://geeklog.info/


--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:49:48 -0600
From: Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Framework
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

Dirk Haun wrote:


>I got it to work eventually (with the new tarball and after installing

>the Creole, Flexy, and Log packages). 

>

Yeah, I'll add a comment about those.  I should have included Creole in 
with the Propel stuff so that would go away in a 'real' application.  
Obviously the Flexy/Log stuff would need to work similar to 1.3.x where 
you can get all required 3rd party code in a tarball or install it 
yourself via 'pear install'.


>Well, sort of - can't add any new

>hunts ("Cannot add or update a child row: a foreign key constraint

>fails") but the rest seems to work.

>  

>

I'll recheck the create.sql and make sure I haven't made any changes.  
This should work for the most part.


>Plain-text passwords in the database? Tsk, tsk, ... ;-)

>  

>

Yeah, just didn't want to fight with MD5's while building it ;-)


>I agree that it's really nice to see how much it does with that small

>amount of code (your code, that is[1]) which is typical for good OO-based

>designs. But this needs a *good* set of development docs to get people

>started (myself included ...).

>  

>

I agree on the docs portion of it.  I guess I was hoping on some initial 
feedback before I put the time needed to do the development documents 
together.  Didn't want to make that investment if it got picked apart 
too bad.

Did you have any input on the use of MVC, Propel or the Data Access 
Layer?  Also, any thoughts on how Flexy was used?  Any input for or 
against would be nice.


>[1] You need a a huge amount of 3rd party code as compared to the code

>that actually makes up the application. But that ratio would get better

>when you're actually developing an application as big as Geeklog. This is

>obvious, I guess - just wanted to point it out again :-)

>  

>

Right, the Propel/Creole code along with the PEAR libraries are going to 
make up for a fairly substantial amount of the total code.  Good thing, 
though, is it is code wouldn't have to maintain.

Thanks for taking a look,

--Tony

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:01:07 -0600
From: Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
Subject: [geeklog-devel] Namespaces
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

GL2 will need to be careful with namespaces because of it's object 
oriented nature.  I'd like to propose that we follow the PEAR model for 
name our classes.  To illustrate here is an example.

All core Geeklog code would start with the Geeklog_ prefix in their 
class names.  Thus the draft of the plugin API that Vinny created would 
be named Geeklog_PluginInterface.  It would reside, however, in a file 
simply called PluginInterface.php in the system directory for Geeklog 2.

Plugins would use their own namespace so, for example, the forum plugins 
would use something like Forum_ as the prefix for all it's code.  The 
obvious problems with namespaces is GL2 will need to officially track 
and manage the namespaces...this involves allowing plugin developers to 
register a namespace effectively reserving it for their exclusive use.  
This isn't terribly different than the notion of plugin names in GL 1.3.x. 

I wanted to throw this in for dicussion as this will need to be 
finalized and documented well early on.

--Tony

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "Dirk Haun" <dirk at haun-online.de>
To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] GL2 Framework
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:05:39 +0100
Organization: Terra Software Systems
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

Tony,


>if things stagnate again I 

>will formally put my GL coding days behind me and leave the entire long 

>term vision of GL to Dirk.


Hmm, but GL2 is my long-term vision ...

I mean, looking back, I didn't originally plan to get involved in GL
development as much as I am now. And I was always hoping to hand Geeklog
back to you at one point - once GL2 has reached a certain stage.

I can see enough potential in 1.3 to go for another year or maybe even 2,
but eventually it will have to be replaced with something new. And I
don't feel like I could develop a new system from scratch - I just don't
have the time for that.

You can always count on me for GL2 module development, but I'd happily
leave the core development in someone else's hands ...

bye, Dirk


-- 
http://www.haun-online.de/
http://www.haun.info/


--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:31:10 -0600
From: Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
Subject: [geeklog-devel] Look-up Tables in GL2
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

Today in GL 1.3.x we have a number of look up tables (e.g. gl_postmodes, 
gl_cookiecodes, gl_featurecodes, etc).  All nearly look exactly the same 
in terms of their structure but they serve wildly different needs.  In 
GL2 I'm proposing we use a single table to serve all those needs.  This 
isn't anything 'new' in concept but it is new to GL.  Anyway I call this 
table the List_of_Values table and it would look roughly like this:

CREATE TABLE list_of_values (
  lov_id int(10) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment,
  group_name varchar (30) NOT NULL,
  short_name varchar(30) NOT NULL,
  description varchar(128),
  enabled tinyint(1) NOT NULL DEFAULT '1',
  sort_order mediumint(10) NOT NULL DEFAULT '0',
  PRIMARY KEY (lov_id),
  INDEX (group_name)
) TYPE=INNODB;

I don't think there will be much argument over the structure but I 
wanted to make sure this made sense to everybody.  The issue I really 
wanted to discuss was one brought up by someone recently (name escapes 
me) on how to handle the translation of text stored in drop downs.   I 
have been assuming we would pipe the text in the actual database table 
through our translation library...seems simple enough but I wanted to 
make sure I wasn't over looking anything.

--Tony

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:39:26 -0600
From: Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] GL2 Framework
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net



>Hmm, but GL2 is my long-term vision ...

>  

>

That's good to know.  I thought that is where you stood but I didn't 
want to make any assumptions at this point considering how long things 
have gone since I first proposed starting GL2 to now. 


>I can see enough potential in 1.3 to go for another year or maybe even 2,

>but eventually it will have to be replaced with something new. And I

>don't feel like I could develop a new system from scratch - I just don't

>have the time for that.

>  

>

That is my exact dilemna.  So this raises the question I think I posed a 
long time ago which is shouldn't we consider drawing a line in the sand 
where we only do bugs, security fixes and minor enhancments to 1.3.x and 
focus all our attention on 2.x?  I think the general concensus at the 
time was that was a good idea but we simply didn't develop this into a 
real plan.  I think a real plan would involve mapping out the remaining 
tasks you'd like to see done in 1.3.x and partitioning those out into a 
set of releases with some loose target dates.  That would allow us to do 
some real planning for GL2.


>You can always count on me for GL2 module development, but I'd happily

>leave the core development in someone else's hands ...

>  

>

Good.  You know it's funny how things evolved.  I got into GL similar to 
the way you did which ended up being a full range of duties that were, 
at the time, easier to manage because I had 'extra' time.  I think all 
of us core developers have similar issues so I think if we could simply 
figure out how to focus our energies into GL2 in an organized way we 
could really get a lot done.   Of course, I'd like us to add a few new 
developers as well...

 Thanks for the input.  It should stir up some conversation.

--Tony

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Blaine Lang" <geeklog at langfamily.ca>
To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Framework
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 15:16:24 -0500
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

Tony,

I had much better luck with this archive.
I still had to modify your ini set line in the config.php to use a ; instead 
of a : as a path delimiter.

I can now have a look at the code as it's quite a change architecturally but 
I like the concepts.
I'm sure it pays off once you get over the learning curve and have the 
codebase in place.

Blaine
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Bibbs" <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Framework


Anybody have better luck with the new tarball?

--Tony

Blaine Lang wrote:


>Tony,

>

>Actually getting propel installed was the easiest of the tasks.

>Read my note all the way - I note the real issues with the archive as I see

>them.

>

>Blaine

>----- Original Message ----- 

>From: "Tony Bibbs" <tony at tonybibbs.com>

>To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>

>Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 10:29 AM

>Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Framework

>

>

>Yeah, keep in mind that I could have included propel's classes in the

>tarball which would have made most of your battles a mute point.  I'll

>probably do that form now on.  It shouldn't be too hard for dabblers

>until they get to the point they want to start doing their own database

>changes...that's where using Propel in conjunction with Phing comes in.

>Despite that, I think this is something we can document well enough to

>get people moving along.

>

>Fire over any additional questions.

>

>--Tony

>

>Vincent Furia wrote:

>

>

>

>>Blaine, (Tony,)

>>

>>I had to mess around a lot with the paths as well to get things

>>working (though I did finally get things working).  I had to edit

>>config.php and then I had to add the path

>>/path/to/HuntingLog/system/Propel to the include path. I did this by

>>adding it into the ini_set in config.php.

>>

>>Hopefully that will get you up and running.  Once you figure out

>>_everything_ (and that is a lot) things will start to make sense.  I'm

>>kind of afraid we're going to make development too hard for dabblers.

>>If we go this route, we'll need to come up with some simple way to add

>>basic functionality.

>>

>>I have been looking at it Tony.  I'll have more input soon. Promise.

>>

>>-Vinny

>>

>>

>>On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:30:58 -0500, Blaine Lang <geeklog at langfamily.ca>

>>wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>>Tony,

>>>

>>>Well, I after more then an hour I still don't have it running. Been

>>>tracking

>>>down the source of multiple path related issues and there appears to be 

>>>no

>>>end.

>>>

>>>I can't get the include path in php.ini to work and had to edit paths in

>>>the

>>>files.

>>>[edit] source to this is noted at end of this message

>>>

>>>- Install propel and that required the PEAR Log class.

>>>- Install PEAR flexy

>>>

>>>But I've been editing some dozen files in the archive you sent for the 

>>>app

>>>as expected paths are not working and I just restored it as is.

>>>Still more changes need - example:

>>>

>>>Warning: main(HuntingLog/om/BaseHlUser.php) [function.main]: failed to

>>>open

>>>stream: No such file or directory in

>>>g:\www2root\HuntingLog\system\Propel\HuntingLog\HlUser.php on line 2

>>>

>>>Line 2 is:

>>>require_once 'HuntingLog/om/BaseHlUser.php';

>>>

>>>The H1User.php is in the HuntingLog/system/Propel/HuntingLog folder and

>>>the

>>>om folder is below this.

>>>So not sure why the include has the HuntingLog directory

>>>

>>>I made a bunch of changes prior to this as well - I was just trying to

>>>make

>>>it work.

>>>Example:

>>>

>>>Index.php - line 4:

>>>The includes.php is not in the pubic_html folder.

>>>

>>>Fix that and then line 5 has an error.

>>>

>>>I did this as noted for about a dozen files and I'm still not done.

>>>

>>>I set $hlConf['path'] and  $hlConf['site_url']

>>>

>>>So what did I do wrong or is wrong ?

>>>

>>>BTW: This is what was messing up my php.ini setting for the includes

>>>setting:

>>>The line at the end of the config.php to set the include_path - should

>>>that

>>>not be with a ; instead of a :

>>>ini_set('include_path', ini_get('include_path') .

>>>";{$hlConf['path']}:{$hlConf['path_system']}");

>>>

>>>Blaine

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>_______________________________________________

>>>geeklog-devel mailing list

>>>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>>>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>_______________________________________________

>>geeklog-devel mailing list

>>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>_______________________________________________

>geeklog-devel mailing list

>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>

>_______________________________________________

>geeklog-devel mailing list

>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>

>


_______________________________________________
geeklog-devel mailing list
geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel 


--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Blaine Lang" <geeklog at langfamily.ca>
To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] GL2 Framework
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 15:30:21 -0500
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

Tony,

I have been contributing on the 1.3 support and development but with all my 
plugins the demand is very high on my time to maintain them. The codebase 
for the forum plugin alone very demanding. And the other core plugins need a 
lot more attention and they are used heavily by the current users.

It's imperative that the 1.3.x code base continue the excellent support that 
Dirk and others of the team have been able to maintain and I don't think 
anyone is saying anything else. I am solidly behind GL2 but also am very 
dependant on 1.3 and it's become a very solid development framework for me.

I definitely want to contribute on the API and Module area of development.


>From  what I've seen so far, it's not the team members and wana-be team 

members lack of desire and intent to contrbute it's that we have different 
cycles of available time.

-- Blaine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Bibbs" <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>; <geeklog-users at lists.geeklog.net>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: [geeklog-devel] GL2 Framework


I've yet to hear anything substantive since the original 12/2 email I
sent on the topic.  In the interest of time I'm going to move on but it
is worth noting one thing.  The GL2 progress has been embarassingly
slow.  I take full accountablity for this.  This latest effort to move
forward on the codebase will be my last. ..if things stagnate again I
will formally put my GL coding days behind me and leave the entire long
term vision of GL to Dirk.  To help keep things moving I am hoping to
delegate as much work as possible to those with more time...however you
might note that quality help is a rare commodity.  The progress that can
be made is directly tied the help I cant count on.  I've had a number of
nibbles from people willing to help but none of them panned out, nearly
all sighting time commitments.  So to expand on what I have already
said, unless I can get other developers to devote some amount of time to
GL2 I will need to officially kill the notion of GL2.  To that end I am
setting a Februrary 1st deadline for myself and any that choose to help
on producing the complete GL2 framework code so that plugin development
can begin.  Anything short of that I will view as failure.

I've cc'd the users mailing list in the hopes that some on that list
might consider contributing to GL2.

My apologies if this all sounded a bit dramatic...I simply wanted to,
one last time, assert my hopes to get the project moving and my
willingness to step aside for the lack of progress.

--Tony
_______________________________________________
geeklog-devel mailing list
geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel 


--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:31:32 -0600
From: Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Framework
Reply-To: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

Yeah, forgot that on windows that would cause a problem. 

Thanks,

--Tony

Blaine Lang wrote:


>Tony,

>

>I had much better luck with this archive.

>I still had to modify your ini set line in the config.php to use a ; instead 

>of a : as a path delimiter.

>

>I can now have a look at the code as it's quite a change architecturally but 

>I like the concepts.

>I'm sure it pays off once you get over the learning curve and have the 

>codebase in place.

>

>Blaine

>----- Original Message ----- 

>From: "Tony Bibbs" <tony at tonybibbs.com>

>To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>

>Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 3:24 PM

>Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Framework

>

>

>Anybody have better luck with the new tarball?

>

>--Tony

>

>Blaine Lang wrote:

>

>  

>

>>Tony,

>>

>>Actually getting propel installed was the easiest of the tasks.

>>Read my note all the way - I note the real issues with the archive as I see

>>them.

>>

>>Blaine

>>----- Original Message ----- 

>>From: "Tony Bibbs" <tony at tonybibbs.com>

>>To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>

>>Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 10:29 AM

>>Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Framework

>>

>>

>>Yeah, keep in mind that I could have included propel's classes in the

>>tarball which would have made most of your battles a mute point.  I'll

>>probably do that form now on.  It shouldn't be too hard for dabblers

>>until they get to the point they want to start doing their own database

>>changes...that's where using Propel in conjunction with Phing comes in.

>>Despite that, I think this is something we can document well enough to

>>get people moving along.

>>

>>Fire over any additional questions.

>>

>>--Tony

>>

>>Vincent Furia wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>    

>>

>>>Blaine, (Tony,)

>>>

>>>I had to mess around a lot with the paths as well to get things

>>>working (though I did finally get things working).  I had to edit

>>>config.php and then I had to add the path

>>>/path/to/HuntingLog/system/Propel to the include path. I did this by

>>>adding it into the ini_set in config.php.

>>>

>>>Hopefully that will get you up and running.  Once you figure out

>>>_everything_ (and that is a lot) things will start to make sense.  I'm

>>>kind of afraid we're going to make development too hard for dabblers.

>>>If we go this route, we'll need to come up with some simple way to add

>>>basic functionality.

>>>

>>>I have been looking at it Tony.  I'll have more input soon. Promise.

>>>

>>>-Vinny

>>>

>>>

>>>On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:30:58 -0500, Blaine Lang <geeklog at langfamily.ca>

>>>wrote:

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>      

>>>

>>>>Tony,

>>>>

>>>>Well, I after more then an hour I still don't have it running. Been

>>>>tracking

>>>>down the source of multiple path related issues and there appears to be 

>>>>no

>>>>end.

>>>>

>>>>I can't get the include path in php.ini to work and had to edit paths in

>>>>the

>>>>files.

>>>>[edit] source to this is noted at end of this message

>>>>

>>>>- Install propel and that required the PEAR Log class.

>>>>- Install PEAR flexy

>>>>

>>>>But I've been editing some dozen files in the archive you sent for the 

>>>>app

>>>>as expected paths are not working and I just restored it as is.

>>>>Still more changes need - example:

>>>>

>>>>Warning: main(HuntingLog/om/BaseHlUser.php) [function.main]: failed to

>>>>open

>>>>stream: No such file or directory in

>>>>g:\www2root\HuntingLog\system\Propel\HuntingLog\HlUser.php on line 2

>>>>

>>>>Line 2 is:

>>>>require_once 'HuntingLog/om/BaseHlUser.php';

>>>>

>>>>The H1User.php is in the HuntingLog/system/Propel/HuntingLog folder and

>>>>the

>>>>om folder is below this.

>>>>So not sure why the include has the HuntingLog directory

>>>>

>>>>I made a bunch of changes prior to this as well - I was just trying to

>>>>make

>>>>it work.

>>>>Example:

>>>>

>>>>Index.php - line 4:

>>>>The includes.php is not in the pubic_html folder.

>>>>

>>>>Fix that and then line 5 has an error.

>>>>

>>>>I did this as noted for about a dozen files and I'm still not done.

>>>>

>>>>I set $hlConf['path'] and  $hlConf['site_url']

>>>>

>>>>So what did I do wrong or is wrong ?

>>>>

>>>>BTW: This is what was messing up my php.ini setting for the includes

>>>>setting:

>>>>The line at the end of the config.php to set the include_path - should

>>>>that

>>>>not be with a ; instead of a :

>>>>ini_set('include_path', ini_get('include_path') .

>>>>";{$hlConf['path']}:{$hlConf['path_system']}");

>>>>

>>>>Blaine

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>_______________________________________________

>>>>geeklog-devel mailing list

>>>>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>>>>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>        

>>>>

>>>_______________________________________________

>>>geeklog-devel mailing list

>>>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>>>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>      

>>>

>>_______________________________________________

>>geeklog-devel mailing list

>>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>>

>>_______________________________________________

>>geeklog-devel mailing list

>>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>>

>>

>>    

>>

>

>_______________________________________________

>geeklog-devel mailing list

>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel 

>

>_______________________________________________

>geeklog-devel mailing list

>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net

>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel

>  

>




--__--__--

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End of geeklog-devel Digest