[geeklog-devtalk] [Fwd: Re: [propel] Performance Benchmarks]

[Blaine Lang]

A very nice detailed reply that is very re-assuring :)

Blaine
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Bibbs" <tony at tonybibbs.com>
To: <geeklog-devtalk at lists.geeklog.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:46 PM
Subject: [geeklog-devtalk] [Fwd: Re: [propel] Performance Benchmarks]


Here is the response on performance I got.

--Tony

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [propel] Performance Benchmarks
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:22:12 -0500
From: Hans Lellelid <hans at velum.net>
Reply-To: users at propel.tigris.org
To: users at propel.tigris.org
References: <41BEFBAA.3080602 at tonybibbs.com>



Tony Bibbs wrote:

> This has probably already come up but I was wondering if anybody has 

> done performance benchmarks on Creole.  Specifically with respects to 

> how it compares to PEAR::DB and/or ADODB.  I put together some framework 

> code based on Propel/Creole and all the developers like what we have but 

> the big concerns at this point are the preformance of Creole and the 

> support plans of both Propel/Creole long term.   Obviously we'd hate to 

> commit to using Propel/Creole and find in a year or two it fizzles out 

> puts us in a place where we have to help maintain that code as well.


Yeah, I haven't done any benchmarks.  I'm curious to see them too :)

I can assure you that Creole is not going to be faster than ADOdb.  It 
will probably be around the same speed as PEAR::[M]DB, perhaps a bit 
faster (it used to be faster, but it depends a lot on how you use it).

I think there's a bigger picture to look at, though. Creole uses 
interfaces and a rather structured architecture.  Creole's use of 
interfaces makes it easy for people to write custom drivers.  Creole is 
a commented body of code with, I think (thanks to JDBC and some 
enhancements by folks like Dave Lawson), a fairly intuitive and simple API.

I used to use ADOdb extensively, and I generally respect John Lim's 
rather different approach to PHP apps.  ADOdb is about speed above all 
else, and that's simply not what Creole is.

Of course, if you're after raw speed, use PHP native functions; they're 
the fastest :)

As for the long-term support plans of Creole & Propel.  I am very 
optimistic for the next versions of these projects.  In all honesty, I 
would say that Propel's future will probably be more expansive.  I like 
Creole, but I would really like to see this level of API abstraction 
happen in the PHP engine, and I'm hoping that as PDO stabalizes that 
will be able to take on much of what Creole provides.  Perhaps next 
versions of Creole can be built on top of PDO, to provide the additional 
metadata & similar features.  Or perhaps this stuff will move into 
Propel, or some in-between layer.

Propel will be changing a lot in verison 2, I hope.  Definitely the 
query-building features of Criteria will be improved, and it will become 
smarter in handling many-to-many relationships and other complex things 
we all deal with.  And consistency of the object graph will be enforced 
in Propel 2 by having maps of currently loaded rows (so 1 row can only 
be 1 object per request).  I'd also like to see ability to upgrade data 
models in Propel 2.  ... And perhaps a more complex ORM inheritance 
model, although that is not a top priority.

Like all things, this project development happens in cycles.  I'm 
pleased to see that others on the mailing lists are increasingly able to 
help answer questions.  It would be good if the user community grew to a 
point where I would spend less time on support issues (and better docs 
will help).  Not that I mind, but just that I only have so much time. 
I'm also greatly appreciateive of all the contributions to the project. 
 I'm hopeful that at some point I'll have written a minority of the 
code :)  It's very inspiring (& complimenting) to have others contribute 
to this project.

So, that's what I'm thinking in terms of future.  I'm curious to learn 
more about what features others would like to see in future versions. 
Also, others on the list may be able to tell you more about real-world 
performance.  I use Propel at work in a very complex private messaging 
system; it's certainly fast for our project, but we also have extremely 
extensive javascript and do almost everything via XMLRPC -- so it's not 
a very traditional PHP webapp.

Anyway, hope that addresses at least the second question. :)

Cheers,
Hans

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