[geeklog-devel] New GL default theme

Oliver Spiesshofer oliver at spiesshofer.com
Mon Oct 22 00:50:22 EDT 2007


Hi Eric,

I somehow object a clear cut and move to XHTML.
I would rather like to see a variable that allows the system to switch 
what kind of HMTL/XHTML is produced by the core code, set by the theme.
All the "/>" woud be replaced by something like "$X>" where the variable 
$X is either empty or includes a "/".

Oliver


=MF=Geiss wrote:
> Just doing a follow up, has anyone with CVS admin rights had the 
> opportunity to review the XHTML conversion code provided by dengen on 
> Sept. 17 in this thread: 
> http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-September/002350.html. 
>
>
> Thx! :-)
>
> Eric 'Geiss' Warren
>
> =MF=Geiss wrote:
>> Quoting Oliver: "I don't know about the XHTML changes submitted. 
>> However, a LOT of the HTML code created in the functions is pure 
>> HTML, not XHTML. I would suggest that we start using XHTML after the 
>> complete PHP-generated HTML is able to output both depending on a 
>> config setting."
>>
>> I may be mistaken, but I believe that the translation to XHTML 
>> included all the core php files, not just the .thtml files. If you 
>> look in the original archive (which I've attached to this email), 
>> you'll see that it looks like a full GL rewrite (at least to my 
>> untrained eye ;-) ). Also, if you visit the test site referenced in 
>> http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-September/002350.html 
>> which is http://www.trybase.com/~sun/ you can see that it validates 
>> XHTML 1.0 Transitional.
>>
>> From lib-common.php line 903:
>>                          $feed_url[] = '<link rel="alternate" 
>> type="application/'
>>                          . $format_type . '+xml" hreflang="' . 
>> $A['language']
>>                          . '" href="' . $baseurl . $A['filename'] . 
>> '" title="'
>>                          . $format_name . ' Feed: ' . $A['title'] . 
>> '" />';
>>
>> From story.php line 550:
>> $featured_options = "<input type=\"hidden\" name=\"featured\" 
>> value=\"0\" />";
>>
>> So, can someone confirm this? I believe, dengen 
>> (http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-September/002350.html) 
>> went to a lot of effort to go through this. I'm sure there have been 
>> code changes since they converted to XHTML from the CVS snapshot of 
>> Sept. 17th. I would think it important to capitalize on these 
>> wonderful changes before the codebases become too different.
>>
>> Thx!
>>
>> Eric "Geiss" Warren
>>
>> Oliver Spiesshofer wrote:
>>> Geiss,
>>>
>>> I have submitted a change to the CVS that removes the 
>>> left-blocks-in-footer variable from the config.php and defaults it 
>>> to true. In adition, I added the right-blocks-in-footer variable and 
>>> defaulted it to false.
>>> If you change one of them now in the function.php of the template, 
>>> you can create CSS themes w/o any tables.
>>>
>>> I dont know about the XHTML changes submitted. However, a LOT of the 
>>> HTML code created in the functions is pure HTML, not XHTML. I would 
>>> suggest that we start using XHTML after the complete PHP-generated 
>>> HTML is able to output both depending on a config setting.
>>>
>>> The new theme looks great. If you want to take the CVS and remove 
>>> all the tables from your layout please go ahead. I am a bit off for 
>>> the coming 6 days so dont expect quick answers from me :-)
>>>
>>> Oliver
>>>
>>> =MF=Geiss wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I didn't receive any feedback on my previous thoughts re: a new GL 
>>>> default theme, so I decided to go ahead and do a mockup (since a 
>>>> picture is worth a 1000 words :-) ). Please check it out at 
>>>> http://geiss.getmyip.com/gl141/ and give me your thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> I am also wondering if anyone with admin rights to CVS has added 
>>>> the XHTML changes submitted by  mystral-kk/ /in this devel email: 
>>>> http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-September/002350.html 
>>>> . This would be a big help in moving forward with new themes.
>>>>
>>>> Thx!
>>>>
>>>> Eric "Geiss" Warren
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =MF=Geiss wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Long time lurker, first time contributor. Go easy! :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds like the real question is, does one bite the bullet now 
>>>>> or later? Personally, I would like to see now. XHTML and CSS 
>>>>> layouts are the way to go IMHO. The landscape is changing rapidly, 
>>>>> and I know everyone hates to hear it, but GL's layout shows its 
>>>>> age more and more every day. If the steps aren't taken now, then 
>>>>> when? If one waits 2-3 releases, they are very realistically 
>>>>> talking about year(s) until a layout revisit.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some ideas for a new default theme, basically a 
>>>>> Frankenstein of the existing Refresh_F theme (re-worked colors, 
>>>>> etc.) and the header background at http://www.bartelme.at. I also 
>>>>> think the main site needs to be re-designed to be more "surfer" 
>>>>> friendly. Let me explain. Like others have said before, the 
>>>>> average joe coming to gl.net to check it out will get their first 
>>>>> impression (like it or not) from the way the site looks. Too much 
>>>>> info (especially text-based stuff) on the main page is 
>>>>> overwhelming. There are ways to still incorporate a lot of info, 
>>>>> but let the user experience it at their own pace. For example, I 
>>>>> like the Extras tab toward the bottom of 
>>>>> http://complementaryduo.com/ that expands and repositions itself 
>>>>> at the top of the page. Something similar could be tied into the 
>>>>> static pages in that when you set a static page to be the Extras 
>>>>> section, its content would appear in the slide-down box. Almost 
>>>>> like a "featured" static page. Also, more block real estate could 
>>>>> be saved by moving login/my account info into a slide-down header 
>>>>> similar to http://www.builtbybuffalo.com. I would be willing to 
>>>>> proceed with work on a new theme, and gl.net re-layout, if of 
>>>>> course I have the blessing of the core team and the help of all 
>>>>> the wonderful people here. :-) My goal is to make GL eye catching 
>>>>> and interesting. Yes, some of the javascript I mentioned above is 
>>>>> eye-candy, but there needs to be a certain amount of it, if gl is 
>>>>> going to appeal to a wider base of users.
>>>>>
>>>>> GL does a lot of things right, I think a theme's functions.php 
>>>>> file should be put to more use with regards to selecting column 
>>>>> layout, etc. The person who converted the GL layout to 
>>>>> transitional XHTML already put forth a lot of effort that would be 
>>>>> a great place to start, and it sounds like Oliver is willing to 
>>>>> put forth additional backend effort to make it a reality. I see a 
>>>>> need for a developer road map, as organization of teams and a 
>>>>> clear vision for the future of GL are lacking. But other than 
>>>>> that, it sounds like there are those willing to make it happen. 
>>>>> They're just waiting for a green light from... somebody.
>>>>>
>>>>> What time frame are we shooting for the 1.5 release? Like I said, 
>>>>> I am willing to put in some significant hours, but I don't want to 
>>>>> see things drag on forever. Again, I think a clear road map and 
>>>>> timetable would be beneficial to help everyone focus and 
>>>>> prioritize. GL has a great core, a great forum, and a great media 
>>>>> gallery. Now it needs a great look. ...maybe a new name and 
>>>>> tagline... gl - the cms for the rest of us. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric aka "Geiss" Warren
>>>>>
>>>>> Oliver Spiesshofer wrote:
>>>>>> Here is the current state of affairs regarding the layout:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be quite easy to do CSS-only layouts, as I found out 
>>>>>> now. Only very minor changes are necessary to create a 
>>>>>> center-left-right HTML/CSS, one of them being to add a 
>>>>>> right_blocks_in_footer config to the left_blocks_in_footer, and 
>>>>>> the other a flag to COM_showBlocks that makes the function simply 
>>>>>> return if there are left or right blocks in the layout and 
>>>>>> therefore assign different classes to elements in either footer 
>>>>>> or header.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now the problem: If we want a layout that has the center in the 
>>>>>> html before the left and right blocks, we cannot have a footer 
>>>>>> anymore that spans the whole page as far as I could find out. The 
>>>>>> ideal layout for center-first HTML is described here: 
>>>>>> http://glish.com/css/7.asp If anyone manages to put a footer 
>>>>>> there, please tell me how. The footer would have only the width 
>>>>>> of the story, if the left/right blocks are shorter, there will be 
>>>>>> a blank space.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the only thing left over, if we want a footer, is to have a 
>>>>>> left, right, center, footer order in HTML and float everything to 
>>>>>> the left 
>>>>>> (http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/tutorial0916.htm). This 
>>>>>> would require to display all blocks in the header, I do not 
>>>>>> really know however what those left_blocks_in_footer are doing in 
>>>>>> the config in the first place, this should be set only in the 
>>>>>> theme.... well, in an ideal world this would not be necessary 
>>>>>> anyhow since all elements would be joined together in one central 
>>>>>> function.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here is my proposal:
>>>>>> 1. modify COM_siteHeader and COM_siteFooter so that either of 
>>>>>> them can display right and left blocks (for the left blocks, that 
>>>>>> is already the case, so why not for both?) This is to allow theme 
>>>>>> authors to really do what they want and not be forced to a 
>>>>>> certain order of the main 3 elements. This would be obsolete once 
>>>>>> we introduce step 5.
>>>>>> 2. Add an option to simply tell if blocks are there to 
>>>>>> COM_showBlocks, so that in the header and footer, layouts of 
>>>>>> elements can differ depending on the existence of left and right 
>>>>>> blocks.
>>>>>> 3. Use a table-free layout for the professional theme with 
>>>>>> left-right-center floated.
>>>>>> 4. (draft) Introduce a minimal-layout where the CSS only is 
>>>>>> changed to display the center first. I am not sure how to make 
>>>>>> mobile devices to choose this by default, and how this will look 
>>>>>> like, but I will try to find a proper solution before introducing 
>>>>>> any of this.
>>>>>> 5. (draft) Create a new function that creates all elements in one 
>>>>>> go and replaces the COM_siteHeader + center + COM_siteFooter. 
>>>>>> Both ways will be available but the aforementioned will be 
>>>>>> deprecated and removed 3-4 (?) versions later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> comments, suggestions, flying axes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oliver
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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