[geeklog-devel] New GL default theme

=MF=Geiss geiss at midnightforce.com
Mon Oct 22 02:07:39 EDT 2007


I understand what you are saying, and I like the idea of flexibility in 
the GL engine, but I'm failing to understand the benefits of having this 
particular option. In what instances would one choose to render their 
site in HTML over XHTML, and why?

Also, my fear is that all the work done by dengen on this XHTML 
conversion of the 1.5 codebase dated Sept.17th would be lost if not 
incorporated soon. I would think it would be easier to incorporate the 
code now, and then once the config option for HTML vs. XHTML is in 
place, just do a global search and replace on the "/>" to be "$X". If 
one waits, one would likely have to do the entire code base conversion 
all over again as the code files could have changed greatly by the time 
the effort is tackled.

I just feel an opportunity is slipping by... if there is some bigger 
picture that I'm just not seeing, please help me to understand it. :-)

On a different note, I've done some more work on a new theme and would 
like another round of feedback. Browse over to 
http://geiss.getmyip.com/gl141/ to see the latest. Things to note are:

    - A new site logo. Thoughts?
    - A collapsible User Controls tab (haven't styled the tab just yet, 
but you'll see the link to the right of the Welcome and Date text) which 
toggles hidden content via a javascript slider. My thoughts are this 
could be a great way to clean up some of the content on sites, giving 
them some aesthetic "breathing room". There is also an Extras toggle on 
the bottom that can be used for the same purpose. Thoughts?
    - A nice static menu dividing the header from the rest of the page. 
This can easily be generated from the GL {menu_elements}code, or just 
hard-coded links in header.thtml. What are everyone's thoughts on this 
new menu vs. the blue one above the site?

Also, kudos to Blaine and colleagues for their great new theme release 
to the GL community. (That seemed to quiet the naysayers about GL 
selling out! That conversation doesn't seem to be so loud anymore, does 
it? :-) ) Blaine, I'm wondering if you would give your blessing for me 
to incorporate the javascript column slider (not the individual block 
sliders, but the entire column one) into some of my theme efforts. 
...They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... :-)

Thx all for your time!

Eric 'Geiss' Warren

Oliver Spiesshofer wrote:
> Hi Eric,
> I somehow object a clear cut and move to XHTML.
> I would rather like to see a variable that allows the system to switch 
> what kind of HMTL/XHTML is produced by the core code, set by the theme.
> All the "/>" woud be replaced by something like "$X>" where the 
> variable $X is either empty or includes a "/".
> Oliver
> =MF=Geiss wrote:
>> Just doing a follow up, has anyone with CVS admin rights had the 
>> opportunity to review the XHTML conversion code provided by dengen on 
>> Sept. 17 in this thread: 
>> http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-September/002350.html. 
>> Thx! :-)
>> Eric 'Geiss' Warren
>> =MF=Geiss wrote:
>>> Quoting Oliver: "I don't know about the XHTML changes submitted. 
>>> However, a LOT of the HTML code created in the functions is pure 
>>> HTML, not XHTML. I would suggest that we start using XHTML after the 
>>> complete PHP-generated HTML is able to output both depending on a 
>>> config setting."
>>> I may be mistaken, but I believe that the translation to XHTML 
>>> included all the core php files, not just the .thtml files. If you 
>>> look in the original archive (which I've attached to this email), 
>>> you'll see that it looks like a full GL rewrite (at least to my 
>>> untrained eye ;-) ). Also, if you visit the test site referenced in 
>>> http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-September/002350.html 
>>> which is http://www.trybase.com/~sun/ you can see that it validates 
>>> XHTML 1.0 Transitional.
>>> From lib-common.php line 903:
>>>                          $feed_url[] = '<link rel="alternate" 
>>> type="application/'
>>>                          . $format_type . '+xml" hreflang="' . 
>>> $A['language']
>>>                          . '" href="' . $baseurl . $A['filename'] . 
>>> '" title="'
>>>                          . $format_name . ' Feed: ' . $A['title'] . 
>>> '" />';
>>> From story.php line 550:
>>> $featured_options = "<input type=\"hidden\" name=\"featured\" 
>>> value=\"0\" />";
>>> So, can someone confirm this? I believe, dengen 
>>> (http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-September/002350.html) 
>>> went to a lot of effort to go through this. I'm sure there have been 
>>> code changes since they converted to XHTML from the CVS snapshot of 
>>> Sept. 17th. I would think it important to capitalize on these 
>>> wonderful changes before the codebases become too different.
>>> Thx!
>>> Eric "Geiss" Warren
>>> Oliver Spiesshofer wrote:
>>>> Geiss,
>>>> I have submitted a change to the CVS that removes the 
>>>> left-blocks-in-footer variable from the config.php and defaults it 
>>>> to true. In adition, I added the right-blocks-in-footer variable 
>>>> and defaulted it to false.
>>>> If you change one of them now in the function.php of the template, 
>>>> you can create CSS themes w/o any tables.
>>>> I dont know about the XHTML changes submitted. However, a LOT of 
>>>> the HTML code created in the functions is pure HTML, not XHTML. I 
>>>> would suggest that we start using XHTML after the complete 
>>>> PHP-generated HTML is able to output both depending on a config 
>>>> setting.
>>>> The new theme looks great. If you want to take the CVS and remove 
>>>> all the tables from your layout please go ahead. I am a bit off for 
>>>> the coming 6 days so dont expect quick answers from me :-)
>>>> Oliver
>>>> =MF=Geiss wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I didn't receive any feedback on my previous thoughts re: a new GL 
>>>>> default theme, so I decided to go ahead and do a mockup (since a 
>>>>> picture is worth a 1000 words :-) ). Please check it out at 
>>>>> http://geiss.getmyip.com/gl141/ and give me your thoughts.
>>>>> I am also wondering if anyone with admin rights to CVS has added 
>>>>> the XHTML changes submitted by  mystral-kk/ /in this devel email: 
>>>>> http://eight.pairlist.net/pipermail/geeklog-devel/2007-September/002350.html 
>>>>> . This would be a big help in moving forward with new themes.
>>>>> Thx!
>>>>> Eric "Geiss" Warren
>>>>> =MF=Geiss wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> Long time lurker, first time contributor. Go easy! :-)
>>>>>> It sounds like the real question is, does one bite the bullet now 
>>>>>> or later? Personally, I would like to see now. XHTML and CSS 
>>>>>> layouts are the way to go IMHO. The landscape is changing 
>>>>>> rapidly, and I know everyone hates to hear it, but GL's layout 
>>>>>> shows its age more and more every day. If the steps aren't taken 
>>>>>> now, then when? If one waits 2-3 releases, they are very 
>>>>>> realistically talking about year(s) until a layout revisit.
>>>>>> I have some ideas for a new default theme, basically a 
>>>>>> Frankenstein of the existing Refresh_F theme (re-worked colors, 
>>>>>> etc.) and the header background at http://www.bartelme.at. I also 
>>>>>> think the main site needs to be re-designed to be more "surfer" 
>>>>>> friendly. Let me explain. Like others have said before, the 
>>>>>> average joe coming to gl.net to check it out will get their first 
>>>>>> impression (like it or not) from the way the site looks. Too much 
>>>>>> info (especially text-based stuff) on the main page is 
>>>>>> overwhelming. There are ways to still incorporate a lot of info, 
>>>>>> but let the user experience it at their own pace. For example, I 
>>>>>> like the Extras tab toward the bottom of 
>>>>>> http://complementaryduo.com/ that expands and repositions itself 
>>>>>> at the top of the page. Something similar could be tied into the 
>>>>>> static pages in that when you set a static page to be the Extras 
>>>>>> section, its content would appear in the slide-down box. Almost 
>>>>>> like a "featured" static page. Also, more block real estate could 
>>>>>> be saved by moving login/my account info into a slide-down header 
>>>>>> similar to http://www.builtbybuffalo.com. I would be willing to 
>>>>>> proceed with work on a new theme, and gl.net re-layout, if of 
>>>>>> course I have the blessing of the core team and the help of all 
>>>>>> the wonderful people here. :-) My goal is to make GL eye catching 
>>>>>> and interesting. Yes, some of the javascript I mentioned above is 
>>>>>> eye-candy, but there needs to be a certain amount of it, if gl is 
>>>>>> going to appeal to a wider base of users.
>>>>>> GL does a lot of things right, I think a theme's functions.php 
>>>>>> file should be put to more use with regards to selecting column 
>>>>>> layout, etc. The person who converted the GL layout to 
>>>>>> transitional XHTML already put forth a lot of effort that would 
>>>>>> be a great place to start, and it sounds like Oliver is willing 
>>>>>> to put forth additional backend effort to make it a reality. I 
>>>>>> see a need for a developer road map, as organization of teams and 
>>>>>> a clear vision for the future of GL are lacking. But other than 
>>>>>> that, it sounds like there are those willing to make it happen. 
>>>>>> They're just waiting for a green light from... somebody.
>>>>>> What time frame are we shooting for the 1.5 release? Like I said, 
>>>>>> I am willing to put in some significant hours, but I don't want 
>>>>>> to see things drag on forever. Again, I think a clear road map 
>>>>>> and timetable would be beneficial to help everyone focus and 
>>>>>> prioritize. GL has a great core, a great forum, and a great media 
>>>>>> gallery. Now it needs a great look. ...maybe a new name and 
>>>>>> tagline... gl - the cms for the rest of us. :-)
>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>> Eric aka "Geiss" Warren
>>>>>> Oliver Spiesshofer wrote:
>>>>>>> Here is the current state of affairs regarding the layout:
>>>>>>> It would be quite easy to do CSS-only layouts, as I found out 
>>>>>>> now. Only very minor changes are necessary to create a 
>>>>>>> center-left-right HTML/CSS, one of them being to add a 
>>>>>>> right_blocks_in_footer config to the left_blocks_in_footer, and 
>>>>>>> the other a flag to COM_showBlocks that makes the function 
>>>>>>> simply return if there are left or right blocks in the layout 
>>>>>>> and therefore assign different classes to elements in either 
>>>>>>> footer or header.
>>>>>>> Now the problem: If we want a layout that has the center in the 
>>>>>>> html before the left and right blocks, we cannot have a footer 
>>>>>>> anymore that spans the whole page as far as I could find out. 
>>>>>>> The ideal layout for center-first HTML is described here: 
>>>>>>> http://glish.com/css/7.asp If anyone manages to put a footer 
>>>>>>> there, please tell me how. The footer would have only the width 
>>>>>>> of the story, if the left/right blocks are shorter, there will 
>>>>>>> be a blank space.
>>>>>>> So the only thing left over, if we want a footer, is to have a 
>>>>>>> left, right, center, footer order in HTML and float everything 
>>>>>>> to the left 
>>>>>>> (http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/tutorial0916.htm). 
>>>>>>> This would require to display all blocks in the header, I do not 
>>>>>>> really know however what those left_blocks_in_footer are doing 
>>>>>>> in the config in the first place, this should be set only in the 
>>>>>>> theme.... well, in an ideal world this would not be necessary 
>>>>>>> anyhow since all elements would be joined together in one 
>>>>>>> central function.
>>>>>>> So here is my proposal:
>>>>>>> 1. modify COM_siteHeader and COM_siteFooter so that either of 
>>>>>>> them can display right and left blocks (for the left blocks, 
>>>>>>> that is already the case, so why not for both?) This is to allow 
>>>>>>> theme authors to really do what they want and not be forced to a 
>>>>>>> certain order of the main 3 elements. This would be obsolete 
>>>>>>> once we introduce step 5.
>>>>>>> 2. Add an option to simply tell if blocks are there to 
>>>>>>> COM_showBlocks, so that in the header and footer, layouts of 
>>>>>>> elements can differ depending on the existence of left and right 
>>>>>>> blocks.
>>>>>>> 3. Use a table-free layout for the professional theme with 
>>>>>>> left-right-center floated.
>>>>>>> 4. (draft) Introduce a minimal-layout where the CSS only is 
>>>>>>> changed to display the center first. I am not sure how to make 
>>>>>>> mobile devices to choose this by default, and how this will look 
>>>>>>> like, but I will try to find a proper solution before 
>>>>>>> introducing any of this.
>>>>>>> 5. (draft) Create a new function that creates all elements in 
>>>>>>> one go and replaces the COM_siteHeader + center + 
>>>>>>> COM_siteFooter. Both ways will be available but the 
>>>>>>> aforementioned will be deprecated and removed 3-4 (?) versions 
>>>>>>> later.
>>>>>>> comments, suggestions, flying axes?
>>>>>>> Oliver
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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