[geeklog-devel] Is this rocking the boat?
Tony Bibbs
tony at tonybibbs.com
Mon Aug 2 15:20:25 EDT 2004
Nope, not yet. It's on my to-do for this week. FWIW, we are using
tools like this both in our .NET and Java environments and they are
really slick. My next exercise is to hook up some more tables with
parent/child relationsip and another with a recursive realtionship and
see how it works.
--Tony
Vincent Furia wrote:
>We should put together a list of what Propel needs in order for us to
>use it to see if our requirements are insurmountable.
>
>>From there, our options:
>1. Ask propel folks if they can get it done, and if so how long it will take.
>2. Do it ourselves
>
>In any case, I think at least a couple of us should install a try out
>Propel to see if all this work is worth it in any case. Tony, have
>you done this already?
>
>-Vinny
>
>On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:51:33 -0500, Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hrm, sticky situation. I guess we could try and get a hold of the
>>authors of this XSL stuff and see if they have any timelines for updates
>>to support other libraries.
>>
>>It would have been nice if the Propel folks would have added optional
>>support for the XSL support in PEAR.
>>
>>--Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>Vincent Furia wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>From php.net:
>>>
>>>http://us2.php.net/xslt
>>>This PHP extension provides a processor independent API to XSLT
>>>transformations. Currently this extension only supports the Sablotron
>>>library from the Ginger Alliance. Support is planned for other
>>>libraries, such as the Xalan library or the libxslt library.
>>>
>>>My reading of this is only Sablotron is supported, not libxslt.
>>>
>>>-Vinny
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:31:30 -0500, Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On linux it is libxslt I'm guessing. Yes, I already have it. However,
>>>>I have compiled PHP and provided neither the --with-xsl nor the
>>>>--without-xsl and the xsl related functions listed in the PHP manual
>>>>don't work. My guess is this is because the XSL support is still listed
>>>>as 'experimental' (as is the SOAP support). We should follow-up with
>>>>the PHP folks to see if they plan on including it as you described (i.e.
>>>>only if the libraries are already installed) once they are deemed
>>>>'stable'.
>>>>
>>>>Also, it's probaby worth noting that this would all work drastically
>>>>different in the case of windows. How, I'm not sure but since they
>>>>typcially don't install from source, they most likely will have
>>>>additional steps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--Tony
>>>>
>>>>Vincent Furia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I just looked in PHP 5's configure file. By default, XSLT is included
>>>>>if the supporting libraries are available on the host operating
>>>>>system. Is XSLT included with most linux distributions? What about
>>>>>Windows? Do standard binary installs of PHP 5 on Windows include
>>>>>XSLT?
>>>>>
>>>>>-Vinny
>>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:23:30 -0500, Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Good question. I know the new XML support in PHP5 is included by
>>>>>>default. I'd have to search the manual to see if it enabled by
>>>>>>default. If it is, let's plan on using it. If not, I think this is
>>>>>>probably a deal killer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Vincent Furia wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I just noticed this about propel (pre-installation requirements):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>># PHP >= 5.0.0 with XSLT support (--with-xsl on *nix, or enable
>>>>>>>php_xsl.dll on Windows)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is XSLT a commonly supported item? Can we depend on it being compiled
>>>>>>>in on most PHP5 installations at ISPs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-Vinny
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:13:03 -0500, Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, as far as other DB connections go, that is up to the coder,
>>>>>>>>obviously. GL2 should only worry about talking to the GL2 database so
>>>>>>>>if you want to access another database you should, without much hassle,
>>>>>>>>be able to open connections using the Creole DB layer that Propel uses:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://creole.phpdb.org/wiki/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Obviously you can still do your own with PEAR::DB or raw MySQL in your
>>>>>>>>code. The DAO layer simply provides a slick way to prevent the
>>>>>>>>developer from issuing raw SQL in the code...sometimes that can't be
>>>>>>>>avoided and I'm sure there is probably way to issue raw SQL in unique
>>>>>>>>scenarios (I need to verify that).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--Tony
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Blaine Lang wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>It does look interesting and like many new libraries or models, it may be
>>>>>>>>>able to improve code readability, reduce code size, and improve
>>>>>>>>>re-useability but I do wonder if
>>>>>>>>>1) There are any SQL usage restrictions or more complex SQL queries that
>>>>>>>>>will not work.
>>>>>>>>>2) Will you still be able to use another DB access method and direct mysql_
>>>>>>>>>calls using PHP
>>>>>>>>>3) Making GL2 too complex to understand for developers will effect it's
>>>>>>>>>support
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have had reason on several occasions to need to access another mysql
>>>>>>>>>database when doing application integration. I just used the direct php
>>>>>>>>>mysql_ calls and created a 2nd DBlink. The current mysql library in GL1.x
>>>>>>>>>does not support this. We should consider this need in GL2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Blaine
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "Vincent Furia" <vfuria at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>To: <geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 11:17 PM
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [geeklog-devel] Is this rocking the boat?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I haven't had enough time to read up on this extensively, but it looks
>>>>>>>>>promising. We just have to make sure that it fulfills all our needs
>>>>>>>>>completely and won't cause any problems down the road. Also, we have
>>>>>>>>>to be able to support it on the off chance that the current developers
>>>>>>>>>drop the project.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>My one worry is possible performance penalties. I think we should
>>>>>>>>>check how much overhead Propel requires.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Most importantly: I want to see GL2 get moving really soon. So a
>>>>>>>>>decision on this has to happen soon. Can we get enough research done
>>>>>>>>>on this topic that we're not causing more delays?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I'll spend some more time reading the Propel docs. If nothing else the
>>>>>>>>>idea sounds pretty interesting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>-Vinny
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:38:26 -0500, Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Ok, I think I sent this link here, but the more I read what I see, the
>>>>>>>>>>more I like it. Please take some time to read about Propel:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://propel.phpdb.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And read the user guide:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://propel.phpdb.org/docs/user_guide/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The long and short of it is this. We could implement Data Acces Objects
>>>>>>>>>>that our code uses to interact with the database. DAO is a good idea no
>>>>>>>>>>matter what DB abstraction layer we use and regardless if we use a tool
>>>>>>>>>>like Propel. Essentially it hides the data access specifics from the
>>>>>>>>>>developers. Instead developers will call simple methods on the data
>>>>>>>>>>access objects and let the DAO layer do the grunt work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>We could essentially use DAO to wrap the use of Propel for data acess.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>That said there are some pros and cons:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Pros:
>>>>>>>>>>1) Clean API, developers no longer have to write SQL except in really
>>>>>>>>>>rare instances.
>>>>>>>>>>2) Object oriented...right in line with GL2
>>>>>>>>>>3) Database changes are easier, now developers don't have to find all
>>>>>>>>>>SQL effected by a database change. We simply change things at the
>>>>>>>>>>Propel level (wrapped by DAO), modify our HTML templates and we are off
>>>>>>>>>>to the race.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Cons:
>>>>>>>>>>1) It is conceptionally more complicated. Requires some ramp up.
>>>>>>>>>>2) Uses it's own DB abstraction layer (i.e. you can't use PEAR::DB even
>>>>>>>>>>if you wanted to).
>>>>>>>>>>3) It's in Beta.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I think this tool could really save a ton of time. Please give this a
>>>>>>>>>>gander and try using it against a very simply table and let me know your
>>>>>>>>>>thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>--Tony
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>geeklog-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
>>>>>>>>>>http://lists.geeklog.net/listinfo/geeklog-devel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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